Editor’s Note: In a wide-ranging new interview with Catholic journalist Aldo Maria Valli (originally published in Italian here), Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò fields questions related to his Appeal last November for an Anti-Globalist Alliance, the fate of the Church “after Bergoglio’s reign” and the prospect of a “credible and authentically Catholic” cardinal (in Valli’s words) being elected at the next conclave, the ongoing “Russian-Ukrainian crisis” (Viganò) and related scandals involving the Biden family, and more.
His Grace also offers advice on how best to engage others, including family members and friends, with the truth regarding “the deception of the psycho-pandemic,” stressing the need for patience and charity in order to overcome the “mental conditioning” to which all members of society have been subjected over the past two years.
When asked about the possibility of there being a “credible and authentically Catholic” candidate within the College of Cardinals for the next conclave, Archbishop Viganò began his answer by returning to the events of 2013, stating that “before discussing the next Conclave, it is necessary to shed light on the abdication of Benedict XVI and the question of the manipulation of the 2013 Conclave, which sooner or later ought to be the subject of an official investigation.”
After responding to his Catholic critics — those who object to Archbishop Viganò’s public commentary on the grounds that he is “too concerned now with politics and economics,” in Valli’s words — His Grace concludes with some guidance on how to observe Holy Week in a spiritually fruitful manner: “Let us contemplate the Hosanna of the crowd that triumphantly receives the Son of David into Jerusalem, and that shortly afterward allows itself to be manipulated by the Sanhedrin and cries out to Pilate for the crucifixion of the King of Israel. May it be a warning to keep us away from evil counselors and corrupt authorities, following the Lord with courage along the Way of the Cross.”
Here follows the full English translation of the interview, which Catholic Family News received from Archbishop Viganò and is pleased to reprint. — Matt Gaspers, Managing Editor
of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò
with Aldo Maria Valli
Your Excellency, here in Italy it is more and more apparent that there is a political vacuum. A growing number of Italians do not feel that they are represented by the current political parties. On the other hand, there are political movements that are gearing up in different ways to fill this void. This question also concerns Catholics, perhaps more than anyone else, as was apparent during the first public meeting of the Comitato Liberi in Veritate [Free in the Truth Committee], which was formed in response to the anti-globalist appeal that you issued, beginning with the consideration that for two years now we have been living with all the effects of a global coup. There are two questions in this regard. First: Do you think that there is room for political action by those who intend to oppose the dominant aligned thought and fight for the liberty of man as God has created him? Second: is it still useful to invest in a national commitment when it has now been demonstrated that the biggest decisions are being made at the supra-national level by powerful people who are able to influence and direct the choices of individual nations?
Catholics, as citizens, have the right and duty to influence society by their civic and political involvement. To sit back and let others participate in the political life of the nation, especially at a moment when the principles of the natural law and morality are ignored or openly opposed, would be irresponsible. It is true that the democratic system has its weak points, because it gives the power of governance to the numerical majority rather than to what is right and good. However, we ought to recognize that first with the pandemic farce and now with the Russian-Ukrainian crisis, we now understand that the will of the majority, despite all the manipulations of the mainstream media, is less and less convinced of the official narrative. This shows that there is a split between the ruling political class and citizens, who are realizing that a coup has been carried out against them by a mafia of bureaucrats and political leaders who are enslaved to the globalist elite.
As soon as people understand that a silent coup is happening, they will have to react and oppose the dictatorship before they are deprived of other fundamental rights.
In your Appeal for an anti-globalist alliance, you have called rulers, political and religious leaders, intellectuals, and people of good will to unite, inviting all of them to join together in issuing an anti-globalist manifesto. Can you update us on the latest developments with this initiative in Italy and elsewhere?
I issued an Appeal in order to respond to the globalist tyranny, and I see that interest and support for it is growing from many different quarters in various nations. I believe however that the evidence of who is responsible for the Russian-Ukrainian crisis and the folly of insisting on provocations rather than seeking peace will make many people understand the danger to which they are exposed if they do not organize in order to firmly resist the deep state’s coup. I know that in the United States the initiative has found a warm reception not only among Republicans but also among many Democrat voters who are disgusted by the scandals and corruption of Obama, the Clintons, and the Bidens.
In your Appeal you speak of real “popular movements of resistance and committees of national liberation” for a radical reform of politics. In the opinion of some, however, in the present situation there is not a suitable moral tension because public opinion is largely complacent and asleep. How would you respond to this objection based on your contacts all over the world?
The masses are little inclined to mobilize for action, especially if they have been manipulated and sedated by experts in social psychology. True resistance and the establishment of the Committee of National Liberation will be successful if it is coordinated by intellectuals and politicians who know how to place the common good and the defense of justice before their own political advantage. We need courageous leaders with a sense of honor, who are animated by sound moral principles: their example, along with a reawakening of consciences and a resurgence of dignity among judges, law enforcement, and public officials could truly prevent the advent of the New World Order.
Social and political commitment must obviously be combined with a supernatural perspective, uniting action to prayer that is confident in the help of Divine Providence. Priests, religious, and all the faithful are therefore called to spiritually accompany their brothers and sisters in the good fight, not only with prayer but also with penance, fasting, and the frequent reception of the Sacraments. The Mercy of God and the powerful intercession of Most Blessed Virgin await a concrete gesture from us of true conversion in order to pour out a torrent of graces on poor humanity. Thus, our numerical inferiority and our lack of means before the enemy will provide an opportunity for the Lord to show the truth of His words: Sine me nihil potestis facere — “Without Me you can do nothing.” (Jn 15:5).
One of the reasons the globalist coup took place and continues to unfold is that the highest level of authority of the Catholic Church is no longer a guarantor of freedom with respect to human dignity. Instead, it is enslaved to the New World Order, speaks the same language as the globalists and follows the same interests as the dominant elites. This subservience to the globalist agenda, which is a source of great suffering for so many Catholics, seems to extinguish all hope for a Christian rebirth. The time factor plays an important role in this. The longer this pontificate lasts, the more the Church is becoming aligned with the overall project, even to the point of self-destruction. Do you think that a recovery will be possible after Bergoglio’s reign? What do you see on the horizon?
The complicity of the Bergoglian church and the entire world Episcopate with the psycho-pandemic farce marked one of the low points of the Hierarchy in the entire history of the Church. But this is the logical consequence of a corrupt and corrupting ideology that finds its basis in Vatican II, as its creators are proud to reiterate. Just a few days ago, on March 25, other conspirators gathered in Chicago to coordinate a marketing operation with which to emphasize that whoever opposes Bergoglio opposes the Council [see here for details — CFN Ed.]. Beyond the poor reputation of these conspirators — among whom McCarrick’s courtiers and minions stand out — we cannot help but agree with them on the intrinsic relationship between the conciliar cancer and the Bergoglian metastasis. It is evident that the apostasy of the Catholic hierarchy is the punishment with which the Divine Majesty is afflicting rebellious and sinful humanity, so that it recognizes the sovereign rights of God, converts, and finally returns under the gentle yoke of Christ. And as long as the Bishops do not recognize their betrayal and repent of it, no hope is possible for the world, since salvation can only be had in the one Flock under the one Shepherd.
Recently a memorandum circulated among the members of the Sacred College, signed with the pseudonym Demos, which lists the disasters that have been caused at every level (doctrinal, pastoral, managerial, economic, legislative) by Bergoglio’s pontificate. “Better late than never,” some have commented, while others have said: “There’s no point in closing the barn door after all the horses have escaped.” What do you think about this memorandum? Do you think it was written by a cardinal? Is it the symptom of a belated awareness?
This memorandum lists the horrors of the Bergoglian “pontificate.” Doing so is already a step forward compared to extolling him. But the horrors and errors of the Argentine and his court did not appear out of nowhere, as if in the preceding Pontificates everything was perfect and wonderful. The crisis began with Vatican II: deploring the symptoms of an illness without understanding its causes is a useless and harmful operation. If the College of Cardinals is not persuaded that it is necessary to return to what the Church believed, taught, and celebrated up until Pius XII, all opposition to the present regime will be doomed to certain failure.
In your opinion, is there someone within the College of Cardinals who is credible and authentically Catholic on whom the Cardinals could focus their votes in a conclave in order to effect a total change of tune compared to the current pontificate?
Certain popes, let’s not forget, are granted [to the Church]; others are inflicted [on her]. But before discussing the next Conclave, it is necessary to shed light on the abdication of Benedict XVI and the question of the manipulation of the 2013 Conclave, which sooner or later ought to be the subject of an official investigation. If there proves to be any evidence of irregularity, the Conclave would be null and the election of Bergoglio would be null, just as all of his appointments, acts of governance, and magisterial utterances would be null. It would be a reset that would providentially bring us back to the status quo ante, with a College of Cardinals composed only of those Cardinals who were appointed up to the time of Benedict XVI, ousting all those who have been created since 2013 who are notoriously ultra-progressive. Certainly the present situation, with all of the rumors circulating about Ratzinger’s resignation and Bergoglio’s election, does not help the ecclesial body and creates confusion and disorientation among the faithful.
Here too, Catholics can implore the Divine Majesty to spare His Church further humiliations by granting her a good Pope. If there is a Cardinal that really wants to “change the tune,” let him come forward and — for the love of God — may he stop referring to Vatican II and instead think of the sanctification of the Clergy and the faithful.
In the United States, the Biden Administration is increasingly in trouble, and the President is increasingly showing his inadequacy; and yet, because of alliances and the intersection of interests at the highest level, it seems impossible to bring down this house of cards. What is Trump doing? Can you help us to better understand the American situation, on which you are an expert?
The Biden Administration is a mirror of the corruption that prevails generally in public affairs with no regard for the immutable moral principles of the Gospel. And if a politician who favors abortion, euthanasia, gender ideology, and all of the worst deviations dares to call himself a Catholic, we must ask what is the responsibility of the teachers, educators, and priests by whom this politician was formed. What did his parish priest teach him in his catechism lessons? What did his professor at his Catholic university teach him? What guidance did the future political leader’s spiritual director give him? And this brings us back to our starting point: Vatican II, which instead of converting the world to the Church converted the Church to the world, making her evangelization fruitless. There was much talk of the “missionary Church,” but, simultaneously, preaching became the propaganda of fatuous philanthropic ideals, tired leftist ideologies, and empty pacifist slogans. And behold what has emerged from those Jesuit schools, the crème de la crème of Vatican II: people like Pelosi and Biden, who have nothing Catholic about them but present themselves with impunity to receive Communion to the applause of Bishops and even of Bergoglio himself.
The American Episcopate, too careful to please Bergoglio, has indeed been very careful not to condemn the Democratic Party platform, even though it did not hesitate to lash out against President Trump who, even with all his contradictions, definitely defended the principles of the natural law and the sanctity of life in a more effective and convinced way.
The Russian-Ukrainian crisis is showing us a Biden who is a puppet of the deep state, stubbornly preventing peace in the present conflict because he is too concerned with covering up his own scandals and those of his son Hunter: I am thinking for example of Burisma and the American interests in biolabs in Ukraine. If the evidence leads to the indictment of Hunter Biden and proves the involvement of his father Joe, impeachment will be inevitable and amply justified, and this could lead Trump back into power. If, in the meantime, the ongoing investigations demonstrate that there was electoral fraud [in 2020], Trump could be proclaimed President. And this would be a mortal blow for the deep state and the Great Reset.
The Covid affair and now the affair of the war in Ukraine have brought to light the existence of profound differences — we could say anthropological differences even before they are cultural and political differences — between those who perceive the problem of the conditioning to which we have been subjected by the constant coordinated action of the “thought bosses” and those who instead accept the dominant narrative and align themselves with the imposed dogmas. Faced with such differences, which are dividing even people united by family ties and friendship, how should we conduct ourselves, as believers, in order to testify to the Truth without yielding to the temptation of the “militarization” of consciences?
The manipulation of consciences constitutes a real violation of individual liberty, leading to the dulling of his faculties which can in turn affect the morality of his actions. Social psychology teaches that anyone who is subjected to mental conditioning according to specific techniques will end up acting by staggering his judgment or even abstaining from forming a moral evaluation of his actions: think of the driving force of the example of the mass populace, of the power that social judgment exercises over our behavior, of the force of the threat of sanctions that is used to make us “respect the rules,” and conversely of the seduction of prizes and rewards that are used to make us act “socially responsibly.” This is, for example, the foundation on which the pandemic farce was built, in which all the principles of mass manipulation were implemented with great success, without there being an equivalent mass reaction against them by those who were deprived of rights, work, salary, and the ability to travel.
The faithful, as members of society, also endured the regime propaganda with Covid, with the aggravating circumstance that the civil authorities were ratified and supported by ecclesiastical authority, who therefore led Catholics to uncritically obey the lockdowns, the use of masks, and the administration of a morally unacceptable experimental gene therapy. It must therefore be recognized that responsibility for the acceptance of the psycho-pandemic and the vaccine campaign rests almost entirely with the Pastors of the Church, and especially with Bergoglio, who makes no secret of his unconditional support for the New World Order, the World Economic Forum, and the globalist ideology.
You speak to me of the “militarization” of consciences as if this was a deplorable thing. Our Lord said: “From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law” (Lk 12:52-53). And again: “Brother will hand over brother to death, and the father his son, and children will rise up against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My Name; but whoever perseveres to the end will be saved” (Mt 10:21-22). How can we think that in the face of the unfolding of the forces of evil and the attack of the New World Order against society and against Christ it will be possible to avoid the “militarization” of our consciences, if by this expression we mean giving courageous testimony to Christ, and to Christ Crucified?
The truth is not a club with which to strike those who ignore it, but rather a light that cannot be hidden under a bushel basket, a light that may perhaps dazzle at first, but a light cannot be ignored by people of good will and right conscience. Whoever does not want to see that light — which is always a ray of the one Light of the world Who is Christ — takes sides with the darkness and must be helped, with Charity, to come out of the darkness. This is all the more true for our loved ones: their erroneous convictions often crack when they are met by our patient response without animosity, and over time they come to understand that our “conspiracy theory” was simply anticipating with reason and insight those things that shortly thereafter would be public knowledge. Of course, it is easier to understand the deception of the psycho-pandemic than the much greater deception that was hatched by the Modernists with the Council.
Among some Catholics there is an objection against you that is making the rounds, which goes more or less like this: “Archbishop Viganò is too concerned now with politics and economics, moving away from his proper field of action, which ought to be the strictly religious sphere dealing with theology, doctrine, and pastoral practice.” How would you respond?
But what do they know about my pastoral activity? With the strength that the Lord grants me, I carry out an intense pastoral and doctrinal activity, which constitutes my main commitment, along with providing spiritual and material support for priests and faithful all over the world — this priestly action does not make the news, also because I am not in the habit of taking an entourage with me… On the other hand, those who attack me today because I speak about politics and the health emergency, yesterday attacked me because I denounced corruption in the Church and the deviations of the Council and the reformed liturgy.
The “sectorization” of competencies is an excellent tool with which the adversary decides, motu proprio [with his own hand], what his interlocutor is authorized to say, when he can say it, and what qualifications he must have in order to open his mouth. Who exactly has decided that a Bishop may not intervene in political matters? Secularists and, among Catholics, those who curiously allow ultra-progressive bishops and clergy to ramble on, who swoon if Bergoglio speaks against Trump or in favor or Trudeau, but who tear their garments if a bishop does not please the system or does not follow the narrative in a way that is unified with the aligned thinking.
I do not think that Saint Ambrose — who moreover came from a career in public administration and was acclaimed as bishop when he was still a layman — would have ever had a scruple about intervening in political questions. For a bishop is a shepherd, and among the sheep of the flock that the Lord has assigned to him there are both the humble and the powerful, subjects and rulers, men and women, honest citizens as well as delinquents: they are all sheep to be led into good pastures and to be protected from the wolves.
It seems to me that in my interventions I have always and only pursued the mission that the Lord has entrusted to me as Successor of the Apostles, working for the salvation of souls at an hour in which humanity is falling into the abyss without anyone sounding the alarm about the imminent danger.
We are about to enter Holy Week. Would you like to offer us a few words, Your Excellency, to help us to live it well, in an authentically Catholic way?
With the Fifth Sunday of Lent we are entering into Passiontide, which will culminate in the celebration of the Sacred Triduum: the beauty and profound spirituality of the liturgical rites of these days are a precious occasion to worthily complete Holy Lent in preparation for the Resurrection of Our Lord.
Let us contemplate the Hosanna of the crowd that triumphantly receives the Son of David into Jerusalem, and that shortly afterward allows itself to be manipulated by the Sanhedrin and cries out to Pilate for the crucifixion of the King of Israel. May it be a warning to keep us away from evil counselors and corrupt authorities, following the Lord with courage along the Way of the Cross.
Let us contemplate the painful Scourging at the Pillar, the Crowning with Thorns, the ascent to Calvary and the Crucifixion of Our Lord, after an unjust and iniquitous sentence carried out by the civil authority in order to please the interests of the high priests. Uniting ourselves spiritually to the Passion of Our Most Holy Redeemer, may we not allow ourselves to be deceived by those who still today would like to use their authority to condemn Our Lord Jesus Christ to death, repeating the words of the crowd on Good Friday: Non habemus regem, nisi Cæsarem — “We have no king but Caesar” (Jn 19:15).
Videbunt in quem transfixerunt — “They will look upon Him Whom they have pierced” (Jn 19:37), says Scripture. May we too look upon Our Savior, disfigured by the torments of the Passion, and consider what part each of us has played in the sufferings of Our Lord. Let us repent of our sins, of our infidelities, of our chasing after human respect, of the times we have been culpably silent. Let us rouse ourselves from our mediocrity and stand courageously under the banner of the King of Kings, beginning with living in the Grace of God, reciting the Rosary, attending Holy Mass, and frequently going to Confession and receiving Holy Communion. And let us remember that there is no Resurrection without the Cross, and that the instrument of death has become, through the Most Precious Blood shed by the Lord, the emblem of Life and Victory.
3 April 2022
First Sunday of Passiontide