Aldo Maria Valli: Your Excellency, let us pick up where we left off in the first part. There is a clear parallel between what is happening in the Church and what is happening in the secular sphere. An expression you often use is that “everything holds together.” Can you explain this more?
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò: The authoritarianism of democratic national and supranational institutions — yesterday with the pretextual pandemic emergency, today with the absurd environmental emergency — is not at all different from the authoritarianism of the synodal Vatican institutions, yesterday with the pretextual ecumenical dialogue and today with the no less pretextual encouragement of sexual and moral deviance. Both are also corrupt expressions of true authority, one with the deep state of the global coup, the other with the deep church of the St. Gallen Mafia coup. In both, the corruption of their members is a guarantee that they remain subservient, because it makes them easily blackmailed. For this reason, it is not possible that those who ascend to certain levels in these institutions to be honest, since honesty would remove them from the control of those who want maneuverable puppets in the key roles, puppets in the hands of a ventriloquist.
Schism is therefore Bergoglio’s ultimate goal, because it is the pharisaical way — that is, the way of a hypocritical and false formalism — with which to oust good Catholics from the Church, leaving her totally in the power of traitors and renegades, free at that point to do with her what they want.
The same thing is happening also in the civil sphere: the rulers and the entire ruling class of Western countries are totally subservient to a power that no one has elected, they obey it even against the interest of the nation and violating the fundamental rights of citizens, without there being any organ or judiciary that is willing and able to try and condemn them for high treason.
Bergoglio’s ostracism towards conservatives is identical to that of the globalist elite towards the “deniers” of Covid and global warming. It does not matter that the psychopandemic and the environmental farce have no scientific basis and are disavowed by eminent scientists and irrefutable evidence: science is replaced by scientism, any scientific literature on these topics has now been removed, canceled, and censored. And here too the parallel with the Church appears in all its evidence, if we consider the blatant contradiction of the “magisterium” from Vatican II onwards with respect to the Catholic Magisterium: doctrine has been replaced by heresy, morality by the subjectivity of the individual, liturgical rituality by sacrilegious improvisation. And those who question the official narrative — for example, by highlighting the sudden deaths of the vaccinated alone or the crisis of vocations of the post-conciliar period — are criminalized, because their dissent is reasoned and rational and cannot be refuted. Instead, it is delegitimized by attacking the individuals who express it.
Valli: At this point the question returns: how do we get out of it? Here at Duc in Altum for some days there has been a wide debate on the subject, with the participation of many readers. It seems clear that Bergoglio and his troops have failed to chloroform Catholic public opinion.
Viganò: Some suggest that we must get out of it by means of prayer. And this is true: asking the Almighty to take the reins of history in hand is certainly an effective tool. But at the same time, this is not enough: prayer — which is always indispensable — must also be accompanied by action, as our fathers in faith — the Apostles, the first Christians and all Catholics — have always done, they who over the course of the past two thousand years have confronted tyrants and satraps who were convinced that they could “crush the infamous thing” — écrasez l’infame, blasphemed Voltaire — while the enemies of the Church are now all dead and buried, and behold, the Church is still alive.
This action must first of all — as I said in our first interview — foresee a strategic fragmentation of traditional movements, which must be coordinated but remain independent so that it is impossible to strike them all with one blow. The fragmentation of the traditional movement is in my opinion the only possible response to the present attack: we must not institute any new pseudo-ecclesial entity, but rather maintain that minimal coordination between different forces, which sooner or later will find themselves regaining full citizenship rights in the Church, the only true and legitimate place where true Catholics must stay. Obviously, this does not mean standing by and watching what happens as passengers on a sinking ship: on the contrary, our permanence in the Church must spur us — as her children — to defend her from the attacks of those who, from within, act as the enemy’s fifth column.
If on the one hand Bergoglio wants to close all our escape routes, then on the other hand it is necessary for us to open others. If his action aims to isolate us in order to intimidate us and make us desist, we must denounce embezzlement by all means at our disposal. And since sooner or later the persecution will necessarily — I repeat: necessarily — spread also to those who delude themselves that they are somehow protected from possible Vatican retaliation, it will be the case that they too can now begin to organize forms of resistance, strengthened by an increasingly pressing state of necessity, which will guarantee the Holy Mass and the Sacraments to the faithful.
Valli: What do you suggest to your brothers in the Episcopate in this regard?
Viganò: I invite them to consider — onerata conscientia — whether it is not appropriate to think of forms of ministry in clandestinity for their conservative priests, in view of possible further maneuvers by Bergoglio or where the civil authorities undertake actions of open persecution of traditional Catholics. The FBI’s investigations into groups of faithful linked to the Tridentine Mass in the United States suggest that deviant parts of the intelligence services consider Catholics a threat to their subversive plan, while they have an ally in the Bergoglian church.
Traditional religious communities — especially those of women in contemplative life — must keep in constant contact in order to give each other mutual support and help, both material and spiritual. It is important that the fringe of dissent against this cupola of heretics and perverts who occupy the highest levels of the Church is increasingly present in the media and on social networking platforms, so as to encourage those who still hesitate between resigned silence and the necessary opposition to apostasy. Let these priests speak: let us give them a voice, let us comfort them, let us make them feel welcome in our homes, in our churches, in our monasteries.
Let us not forget that the mentality that guides the globalist elite — and the Bergoglian sect that is its handmaiden — is of a mercantile matrix that is typically Protestant and usurious. The dominant idea is power and profit, obtained through the commodification of everything, that is, the transformation of every aspect of life into a commodity, into a sellable and purchasable product. And commercial strategies always follow a well-determined process to conquer the market.
Valli: Can you give us an example?
Viganò: Certainly. Imagine having two companies, a foreign multinational corporation that produces a poor-quality article at low prices in the Third World and an Italian artisan company that produces the same article with high-quality raw materials produced strictly in Italy alone, with expert skill and at an honest price. In these conditions it is clear that the multinational has no hope of being able to impose itself on a new foreign market, also because under normal conditions the government provides forms of protection of its country’s own domestic entrepreneurial excellence and imposes heavy duties on imported goods. But membership in the European Union prohibits member states from giving priority to their own companies, imposes onerous taxes and duties, causes the costs of raw materials and production to rise, facilitates credit to multinationals and drastically restricts its availability to small and medium-sized enterprises. Behind these economic and fiscal policies, of course, are the lobbyists of the large financial groups. At this point our Italian company is forced to increase prices, while the multinational corporation immediately becomes competitive. The multinational therefore enters the Italian market, with an impressive media campaign, which the small competitor cannot even remotely afford; after a while the multinational acquires the small company and lets it work for a while; then it eliminates the valuable artigianal product in favor of the poor-quality manufactured one. What has the multinational gained? The cancellation of the alternative product and the general lowering of the product’s quality. The competition has been eliminated, and the manufactured product will be able to increase its price simply because it is the only one offered on the market. In this process it is essential to remove the quality product, because it is an annoying term of comparison for the product that is mass-produced in a Chinese prison or in an Indian village. So what solution is proposed to deal with foreign competition? After the lowering of raw material costs, all that remains is the cut in labor costs, with the reduction of wages and the introduction of an underpaid foreign workforce, also thanks to the pressure of the landings of illegal immigrants ferried from North Africa or entered Europe from Turkey. If we add to this coordinated assault the increases in the cost of energy — all of which are deliberately provoked — and the obligation to balance the budget for the EU member nations (or at least for some), we understand that in this case too all escape routes have been closed, except for the only one that is desired, which is then the one that will prove fatal for those who take it.
Valli: Forgive me, Archbishop, but when you express yourself in this way, some say: Archbishop Viganò speaks of things that do not concern him as a pastor.
Viganò: I realize that here we are on at least “unusual” ground for a topic being addressed by a Bishop, even if in my former duties as Secretary General of the Governorate of Vatican City State I also had to deal with economic issues. If you notice, the commercial strategy I have just illustrated is also adopted in the ecclesiastical sphere. The high-quality product is represented by Catholic doctrine, morals and liturgy. Competition from the low-quality product is constituted by modernist ideological rubbish, mainly the reformed rite of the Mass. Since the “clientele” is not willing to freely give up the high-quality product it has always had in exchange for something incomparably inferior, this is when the “conciliar multinational” acquires the “small artisan company” and lets it offer its product under Summorum Pontificum, only to then close almost all the points of sale and prevent the formation of clergy and religious according to the traditional ratio studiorum by imposing the legislation of Traditionis Custodes. And in order to prevent people from seeing that the imported product is poor, it avoids comparison with the high-quality product by simply making it disappear. But these maneuvers, however effective from an organizational point of view, cannot prevent the gulf between the two alternatives from being very evident. If the “clientele” resigns itself to buying what is imposed on them by the “large retailer,” it is only because they have been deprived of the possibility of a free choice due to fraud and market manipulation.
I know well that in religious matters this “shopkeeper” approach is inappropriate and offensive, especially because the good of the Faith is of such an inestimable value, freely granted to us by the magnificence of God, while the alternative that is proposed to us cannot compete in the least and has as its price our eternal damnation. But I believe it does not escape any of us that the usurious cynicism of the sellers of heresies and perversions is not able to go beyond seeing the matter as commercial exchange, giving a price to everything: the thirty denarii paid by the Sanhedrin for the betrayal of Judas confirm this, and there are always High Priests ready to pay the sum, as well as renegade apostles who are willing to hand the Lord over by means of a kiss to the temple guards.
This is the mentality that moves and orients merchants — let’s not forget that the World Economic Forum is a lobby of entrepreneurs thirsty for money and power — when it has to force the adoption of new lifestyles in society: social manipulation is an integral part of marketing actions, and if the “product” to be sold is an experimental serum or an electric vehicle, the modalities of creating demand and placing it on the market will include a media campaign of pandemic or environmental social alarm thanks to the cooperation of the press, individual journalists, so-called “experts” — virologists or climatologists, for example — and politicians. All of them are in fact employed by the technocratic lobby of the WEF, because they are owned by large investment funds such as Vanguard, BlackRock and State Street or directly or indirectly sponsored by them. If a newspaper spreads certain news, it is because this or that multinational corporation controls it, because they buy advertising space and finance events. And the same applies to research institutes, universities, and foundations that are assigned the task of publishing studies that confirm the narrative. This is accompanied by interference and lobbying activities at public institutions, whose officials sign agreements with private entities that in return finance their activities or that hire them at the end of their term of office, according to the well-known practice of revolving doors.
The circle closes with the last missing piece: the cooperation of the Catholic Church — and of other religions, but in a completely secondary way — to the coup d’état of the globalist elite. The deep church has not hestitated for a moment to lend itself to this ugly alliance, because it is totally occupied by characters linked to the deep state. It did so by pandering to the psychopandemic farce, then aligning itself with the Ukrainian crisis, then embracing the green narrative in an Amazonian flavor through the worship of the Pachamama, and finally prostituting the Synod to woke ideology.
And even when this libido serviendi of the sect of Santa Marta has not been spontaneous, we know well that the blackmail of leading figures would have persuaded them to align themselves without skipping a breath: the scandals of the former Cardinal McCarrick and his minions who are still in power — Cupich, Gregory, Farrell, Tobin, McElroy — are not so different from those of Joe Biden’s son. The pathetic and grotesque attempts at whitewashing and cover-up may perhaps postpone the redde rationem that awaits the pedophile-satanist cupola currently in power, but they will not succeed in preventing the truth from emerging in all its terrifying gravity, and from doing justice to these perverts who are devoted to the Evil One. We must be ready, at this juncture, to open our eyes to a vast network of complicity, which will make it clear why this infernal machine has worked so well so far.
Valli: But how to effectively cope with such a widespread and organized network? The forces of those who oppose it, although sustained by a great passion and spirit of sacrifice, appear far insufficient…
Viganò: Look, I believe that the very efficient organization of the forces of the Enemy is certainly a strength, compared to our disorganization and fragmentation; but at the same time, it is also the Enemy’s Achilles’ heel. It will be our disorganization, our ability to move autonomously, the unpredictability of our moves that will prevent the deep church from succeeding in its quest to oust us from the Church — and, likewise, the effort of the deep state to oust us from civil society. And vice-versa, it will be precisely their soulless organization and the identifiability of their chain of command that will allow us to sabotage their plans, denounce their authors, and frustrate their actions.
So let’s start looking at short-term projects and long-term projects. We must not just resist: we must become actors rather than reactors: we must take the initiative, as I believe is already happening in many quarters. Only in this way will we realize that the pusillus grex is not so small, and that the gates of hell, just like a haunted house at an amusement park, are only an impressive stage set constructed by those who have already been definitively conquered by Our Lord.
Let me conclude with an appeal to support the activity of Exsurge Domine, the Association I have founded to give assistance to priests, seminarians, and men and women religious being persecuted by the Bergoglian junta. Your help will allow us to respond to the many situations of discrimination against these good souls, who are being targeted by unscrupulous mercenaries who are without Faith and above all without Charity. You can find all the information and how to send a contribution by visiting the website www.exsurgedomine.org.